Albums->Singles? or Singles-> Albums?

[sevenpetals]

Ok so im not sure if this is a weird question... but i started out in the japanese music industry (i was quite an anti-social introvert until around 2008) and the process of Single-Single-Single (ormore!) - Album! Sounds so normal to me...

The first english album i ever bought was The Fame by Lady Gaga (isn't that sad!? dont worry ive branched out SOO much since then) and the idea that they would release singles months after the album had been released... rarely making any new content confused the crap out of me. I first thought it was just a Lady Gaga thing, but i came to learn that many people do this...

Is Japan-N.A just reverse in releasing order? and can someone explain the marketing idea behind Releasing an album that wont sell very well(probably), then singles that are already on an album?

[gigglefit]

Well, that makes no sense O.o
Then again, not a lot of stuff in America makes sense .__.

[Sai]

Haha, I remember feeling similarly perturbed about this. J-pop was the first music I really got "into", as in, joining forums and following releases and stuff, so I didn't even know what singles were at the time, and for a while afterwards thought they were just something they released in Japan :XD I know better now, of course. Though, singles are a bigger deal there than they are in the west.

I definitely prefer Singles -> Album, though. Getting new material throughout the year is so nice, and really helps maintain interest in an artist. It just feels like the industry is so much more active with new singles coming out all the time, with new material every time. I really wouldn't be able to deal with getting new material only once a year - or, (*shudders*) every few years like a lot of western artists.

[hot0rikun967]

I was confused by it as well because like everyone else here Jpop came first for me, and I also don't like the whole western release order thing. Although, I guess for some artists it makes sense that it takes time to release music. Actually, I can use Lady Gaga as an example: she writes all of her songs and her tours last over a year with dates held in all different locations. So, that makes some sense. Also, production may have something to do with it? I don't know; I'm no music expert by any means. But it seems that (and maybe someone can explain why this is) western music seems to pay more attention to hooks than Jpop. I like Jpop infinitely more, but there doesn't seem to be anything added for the song to be catchy. Songs are just good, at least to me, because I love the singer. I'll love a Nana song no matter what it is, but to someone who may not have heard her before her songs may have less of a chance of sticking in someone's head; whereas, I didn't even particularly like Nicki Minaj, but "Super Bass" and "Starships" haven't left my head since they came out. I had originally only ever heard them on the radio a maximum of five times each ("Starships" I only heard once), but the songs haunted me until I eventually bought them off of Itunes...

Back to the original point, perhaps, at least in regard to pop music, hooks are considered more important than in the Japanese industry and so it takes longer to devise such a hook? I don't know. Maybe I'm just spouting nonsense, but any additional information would be nice. Regardless, it does suck to have to wait so long for western artists to release music.

In that same vein though, a lot of the time it feels like western albums have more of a conceptual feel to them (at least with some artists) than with Jpop albums where many songs are sort of stand-alone thematically. That being said, figurative language seems to be more prominent in Jpop than in western pop nowadays (again, barring some exceptions). Also, at least for my tastes, I don't seem to find many songs that aren't memorable in a given album from a western artists I like, but there are some album songs on Jpop artists I like that aren't instant attraction (except with Nana haha). For example, Berryz Koubou album tracks are often less-than-memorable. Maybe using H!P isn't a good example, but I dunno. Now I'm just making observations. Either way, Nana is the queen of my music world ;D:7

[sevenpetals]

Thats true! J-Pop and "Pop" are fundamentally different in terms of "hook" Jpop is good and can be catchy, but most Nana songs i can think of that are her strong powerful songs are just... pop-rock... rock like with strong vocals + backgrounds but missing a really defined "hook"! Its always been hard for me to explain why J-Pop has a different feel to it than Pop other than the obvious language thing!!! xD thank you lol

I agree, Western Albums typically have a concept, or are named after one. I think Nana tries, but it doesnt always work xD Rockbound Neighbors was simply rockbound - with harder melodies, instruments, and vocals, coupled with lighter songs (neighbors) and the tracks flowed together, but it wasnt like an ongoing message or anything, when i think albums like The Fame, or things like that, they flow well and every song is stand alone, but on the grandscheme of an "album" they are all puzzle pieces.
One artist i can say ive noticed this in in J-Pop would be Kana Nishino (especially her 2nd album, to LOVE - the song titles almost tell the story of a girl and a boy's romance in order haha!)

Nana's music can be very catchy (currently in my mind, Get my Drift chorus, Lovely Fruit, Discotheque) but its usually her vocals along with original (by that i mean the many employees of elements garden xD!) melodies that make it catchy, not a repetitive hook to get it stuck in your head. I typically have japanese songs stuck in my head because they are not just a hook however, so I guess the american music marketing strategy doesnt affect me lol. Sometimes i get Call me Maybe in my head, or Va va voom, but not usually. Lady Gaga's music isnt too "hook" oriented either in that sense, which is probably why I like her so much... other than her originality, her music is good because its good, not because it plays a catchy chorus every song (every Nicki Minaj non "rap" song=hook based). Only Lady Gaga song that gets stuk in my mind for that is probably Love Game because i love her voice in the song haha!


One thing i can say about the Album - single + single + (maybe) single strategy is that it allows for more music video production time. Typically following Vevo on youtube for american artists, they are always making music videos for songs that are already released, where here we get the song leaked (lol for sure) and then the PV leaked (or maybe a snippet - then full pv with full song). I wish Japanese Artists made more music videos for their songs with more money put into them (Except Koda Kumi, shes a freaking beast when it comes to music videos... i remember an album had like a music video for almost every song once.. or maybe im crazy lol)

[gigglefit]

Jan 2, 2013 11:00:50 GMT -4 hot0rikun967 said:

In that same vein though, a lot of the time it feels like western albums have more of a conceptual feel to them (at least with some artists) than with Jpop albums where many songs are sort of stand-alone thematically.

Though lately there are exceptions. I'll use an example familiar to you ; Minori Chihara's D-Formation tells the story of Wonderland throughout the songs.
I really like albums with a good contept, because it presents a good story. However, in Japan this would be very hard to achieve if you are releasing singles before that, since every single has to be different in idea, arrangement, melody etc. so people wouldn't get bored.

As for the "catchiness", i think western pop is more like k-pop: short, catchy songs with many MVs (which, in part is also responsible for k-pop being popular in America since the beginning of the Halyuu wave), while j-pop songs are songs that you can listen over a longer period of time, and they don't get boring as quickly. A thing i noticed, is that Japanese songs are often richer in arrangement than their American counterparts. I don't think i've ever heard a piano or a violin in western pop.

Also, i think that the single=>album business model is potentially better for the artist; you get to release more songs (since all japanese singles come with at least 1 b-side), and people keep listening to you the whole "era", which is then finalized by an album, and usually a tour. This may be the cause of Japan being a bigger music market than America (besides their music CDs being more expensive). I was introduced to Japanese music before western music, too, so this seems more logical to me.

Nana nowadays needs to cater towards the mainstream more, as she is becoming more popular, surpassing her music regarding anime. Thus the idol-like Lovely Fruit and the short but very catchy Get my drift. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, since we get a new side of her, but i hope she doesn't end up like Aya Hirano, who was a very popular anison singer, but tried to sing mainstream and failed, losing both sides of her listeners.

[hot0rikun967]

Nana will never be Aya Hirano. She's way too good for that and has already achieved a dedicated fan base that aren't fickle otaku (sorry Aya XD). But she definitely should and is catering to a mainstream audience. I think that "Lovely Fruit" and "Get my drift?" were excellent examples of that. In fact, Nana's embracing of rock influences in general seemed to come during a point in her career where she was beginning to break into popularity. UD was the album that brought her into the spotlight, and I think the variety of songs on it played a huge part. It made sense that IE followed a similar formula. That formula broke with RN, but I think that's because she's finally established herself in the industry as a staying force. She can dish out "Avalon no Oukan" to appeal to her anison fans while presenting "Darling Plastic", "Naked Soldier", 'Get my drift?" etc. for mainstream appeal and eventually everyone will love all of the songs on it anyway.

I agree that western pop and Kpop are incredibly similar, but that raises a historical question. Both Japan and South Korea have been heavily influenced by the western world (albeit forcibly in many, many cases). How did Japan's popular music develop from enka to the modern Jpop we see today? I'm not just referring to anison either; there really is something different between mainstream Jpop and mainstream western pop. There seems to clearly be a western influence in Jpop, but it is nowhere near as prominent as in Kpop. Perhaps it has something to do with the cultures of both nations in regard to embracing foreign ideas. Japan has been a 1st world nation for a long time, too, and South Korea only relatively recently has risen to prominence. Perhaps with a strong global identity, Japan was able to explore and develop their own culture more thoroughly than countries that may have felt it necessary to westernize for the sake of development. Again, anyone's two cents would be great here (especially non-western perspectives). Sorry for getting a little off-topic; I'm just really interested now!

In regard to music videos, I find myself enjoying Jpop videos much, much more than western music videos. Specifically music videos for anison songs (such as Nana's), there's more of an aesthetic focus to them as opposed to a story-telling focus, which I actually prefer. I mean, aside from "Mysterion" and "Lovely Fruit," I can't think of any other Nana videos with that apparent a story. Most of her music videos have a story that could be interpreted to be loosely coherent or could simply be taken as aesthetically appealing.

[sevenpetals]

Im liking this thread haha! xD

In terms of music videos, i like to find Nana music videos that match the theme/lyrics of the song, but dont have a story necessarily.. Honestly i love Phantom Minds PV the most because Nana is so freaking gorgeous in it, Scarlet Knight i hear has a story, so i can't include it, but Nuns on violin = epic win.

I just wish she had more music videos! when i heard that time space would be an EP, and bright stream had 2 big tie-ins, i was expecting 1 for Fearless Hero, 1 for Bright Stream (my least favorite of her recent PV's) and 1 for Metro Baroque, but i was disappointed honestly, i love the chorus of Fearless Hero so much, ive been spoiled by Bright Stream to the point that its like my least favorite A side this year

Western Music Videos sometimes have tooo much story into them for such simple songs.. then theres Lady Gaga music videos, which i love for their storys/creativity. xD

On the idea of Nana going Mainstream... i love the idea of her adding more Rock like songs into her discography. Rockbound Neighbors was a great start! Darling Plastic (not sure if this counts lol)Crescent Child, Get my Drift, Naked Soldier were just all freaking fantastic. The latter 2 had very catchy choruses especially. I dont see how Lovely Fruit is mainstream though! It is cute, but her voice isnt super high in it or anything, i see it as more playful with interesting lyrics/concept. The jazzy instrumentals make it especially interesting and dare i say... "peppy"My old High school jazz band would play Pep for games and i could see the instrumentals to Lovely Fruit being one that we would've played ... ah good times xD

[gigglefit]

Jan 3, 2013 19:15:53 GMT -4 sevenpetals said:

In terms of music videos, i like to find Nana music videos that match the theme/lyrics of the song, but dont have a story necessarily..

Exactly! Another thing that is completely different in Japan then elsewhere, the western music videos show the story, while the lyrics only give a general meaning behind it, while in Japan, the lyrics are showing the whole story and the music video only follows it in terms of the motives in the song. South Korea is the mix of two, having western music, but Japanese-style music videos (except there's much more dance to it). This is also a reason i tend to like J-pop more, i don't need a music video to understand a song completely.
Of course, everything is with exceptions.

[amelala]

oooo....that y K-pop its better in mainstream, unless some pp just follow blindly w the majority grp....-.-;;.....i even heard that they said J-pop got no climax...(hm! hear the wrong music)

[relmy]

This is really long, would have been shorter if I'd replied earlier... I think I covered everything here.

For the release style, it's just how the industry works. Japanese albums sales are front loaded and in the West you get Adele having the best selling album for 2 years running. Fan wise, I prefer the Japanese style, as you get new material bit by bit, but albums tend to have a major difference in quality for single tracks and album tracks. Japanese companies clearly spend more time on singles, recording an album in a few months.

Western albums tend to be way more cohesive. The artists is ABLE to vanish from the industry to work on material for a few years and come back - something you cannot do in Japan unless you're Utada Hikaru. They drop a lead single, drop the album a month later, you have the initial sales period and then you go off and make another video for your next single - based on what people like from the album too!! It makes sense, people will go pay more for the ALBUM if they like a song, while in Japan they will have to go buy a single or wait for the album - and who will wait for an album outside of the fanbase?

This is, of course, just in pop music. A lot of more experimental Japanese acts do make their albums in whole, but they're much less commercially orientated. Even Ayu's Party Queen, which had no singles, still felt like she was sticking to her Jpop formula of happy track, rock track, mid tempo, ballad etc... it still felt like it had "singles" v.s. "album tracks" - which it did, it had promo tracks with PVs.

Still though, I find it really hard to compare Jpop, Kpop and Western Pop. Or even the industries.

I feel like you have to break it down - chart pop that is commercially successful and does well. It's pretty easy to compare Jpop and Kpop - they both LOVE idols right now and are over saturated. Western pop? It goes through trends much much faster than Japan. In the UK it's even harder, anything can chart well here. And to be honest, charts aren't that much of an indicator. I'd say the charts mainly reflect my niece's demographic (she's 12), as that's the age group that buys music (because they don't know how to pirate *cough cough*). People like Coldplay, Adele and Florence and the Machine do well on the charts though, because they're popular among people from my age right up to people in their 60s and 70s. Look at who we had at the Olympics... it's so broad.

As for Jpop, most of the stuff that charts well IS idol music, it's the same in Korea. In America, it's currently Rihanna, Gaga and Katy Perry. I'm not particularly fond of ANY of them (there are exceptions, I love 2NE1 for example), what I criticise Katy Perry for I can equally put against Arashi, EXILE or AKB48 - maybe even MORE so. Pop music as a whole though? It's great in most places. In Jpop you have people like Nana, I'd say it's fair to class Ayu in the broader "pop" spectrum now. Kpop - what about somebody like Neon Bunny? Who made a folky record and then a dance record that blows all the mainstream idols out of the water.

I guess Kpop, as in idol Kpop, is so strict though. You can have a badass image, but you still have to do aegyo and sing about your oppa. Look at the new Girls' Generation MV - badass image, but they STILL do aegyo and go floaty around boys. Idol Kpop is... woah. And it's *idol* Kpop that people like online, not Kpop or even Korean Music. The amount of people who thought BoA was a NEW artists when Only One came out, I went on a tumblr rampage, I can tell you that.

Would I call (idol, assume I mean I idol for Kpop) Kpop and Western pop similar? Not at all, except in a VERY few cases - 2NE1 clearly have an American influence, and Hyuna is really the only artist who takes her sexuality in her stride like Western solo singers do (even the ones who DON'T sell sex). The rest? Yes, their music is composed by the same people who do Western music, but the production, the videos, the AEGYO, it's ALL Kpop. It's way more like Jpop - the idol cult, not allowing dating, the whole purity, yuck, that shit would NEVER EVER work in the West. Girls like their boy bands single, but their dating isn't restricted in contracts. This brings me to my next point...

The Korean boy bands just sound like how boy bands have always sounded, I actually think One Direction was able to do well BECAUSE of the Kpop boom. The way the fans act about them: think they own them, control their dating, the whole Harry Styles and Taylor Swift thing - that is Kpop's influence on fandom. That's another rant though.

eeer, what was the topic again?

This isn't even going into rock, indie, electronica, jazz... what's going on here all feeds into the pop mainstream.

tldr: can't judge America/West by it's charts because Japan is equally as bland.

rant oveeerrr